Silver Jews

A conversation with David Berman

(September 2008)

Interview by Adam McKibbin

Photograph by Cassie Berman

Previously published on ARTISTdirect

David Berman has long been one of the most quotable songwriters in indie rock.  As the leader of Silver Jews (whose members have also counted Pavement frontman Stephen Malkmus), he’s penned some of livelier narratives and wittier couplets of the past couple decades, even publishing a volume of poetry on the side.  As he’s based in Nashville, it’s perhaps little surprise that’s been injecting a heaping helping of twang into his guitar-based indie rock.  In many ways, they've been one of the more consistent acts around.  But recent years have seen at least one big change in Berman and the Jews:  once a relative professional recluse, whose live shows were very few and far between, he’s now been trotting out on the road with his last couple records.

His latest, Lookout Mountain, Lookout Sea, features more prominent backing vocals from his wife and bandmate, Cassie, and contains a number of quintessential Berman musings.  Almost 20 years in, the “Joos” are sounding as vital as ever.

Berman recently offered up some answers about the new album and his new tour-friendly ways, as well as passing out the award for one of the all-time worst lyricists.

This story is going to out me as the kind of guy who wears band t-shirts, but I was out a few weekends ago (in LA) and emerged from a bar, whereupon I was stopped by a Botoxed waif of indiscriminate age. She saw my shirt and wailed, "Silver Jews! I love them!"  Pause.  "What is it?"  I said something about a band, but I'll take the question right to the source:  What is a Silver Jew?
 

A Silver Jew is something like a Bluegrass Drummer or a Brick Butterfly.  I thought it had no referent outside the music until I found out that it is the name of an Australian fish (which is interesting as black swans were discovered in Australia in the 1600s, putting the lie to the old saying "all swans are white").  Lately I say it's a metaphor for people whose fathers were Jewish but mothers weren't.  Disqualified Jews. 
 
Lookout Mountain was recorded at three locations by three gentlemen.  What inspired the change in scenery and collaborators?

The basic tracking was done at this studio here in town.  That was fine, but I wanted to go somewhere else to mix it and do the vocals.  I started changing the words.  Erasing whole songs lyrically and starting over.  The last song was originally called "Sunglasses, Cigarettes, and Keys".  Time was dragging on and I was only getting into the studio in dribs and drabs over where we mixed it.  Some of the mixing got done in Virginia.
 
The inclusion of chords is obviously a unique feature that's been getting a fair bit of play in the press.  You say that anybody can play these songs, and it's an interesting way to involve listeners beyond just reading along with lyrics.  How long did it take you get comfortable on the guitar?  Did you do the lessons-as-a-kid thing?
 

I was a fan for 8 years before it occurred to me to try.  When I was 21 a guy named Joe sold me this teal blue Hondo Les Paul copy for fifty dollars.  It took me another couple of years to pick it up and ask a couple questions.  A great guy by the name of Zeke Fiddler showed me how to play the F major 7th chord, and that sound got me to try to write.
 
What's the history behind the stationary collection that bears the album's lyrics and chords? 

I knew I was going to write the lyrics out on a sheet of paper but I wanted other elements to change from page to page besides the written content.  Last time I did the same thing with the songs on top of different colors.  It's just a parallel narrative of which you know nothing besides the fact that there is movement happening on a third level between the writer and the song.
 
We did an interview three years ago and you were talking about your aversion to touring, explaining that you didn't like the "acting" element of live shows.  You've obviously made some peace with touring – was that out of necessity, or was there some sort of breakthrough that helped you enjoy performing more than you expected?
 

The part of my method that has most changed is that I force myself to survive, by setting appointments for myself, ones I have to meet.  I don't know if I will ever be able to ask to play a show, but I've found that I can just say the word "yes" instead of "no" when I'm asked.

For the older songs that you recently revisited for these rounds of touring, do you find that most of them are making close to "as is" transitions to the stage, or have you done some pretty heavy reworkings?

There's not a lot of reworking.  I like things to sound close to the records.  It is a different philosophy than the one people are used to advocating in the rock world.  In a sense I only want there to be one version of the songs, like it was in my pre-live days.
 
Who would you count among the best contemporary lyricists?  There are always these rock mag features on best songwriters, best singers, best guitarists, but I usually don't see an isolated focus on lyrics - at least to the degree that other aspects of songs and performers are sized up.

If I still hung around record stores I'd probably have a better idea.  Or maybe if I had an iPod or had downloaded a couple songs in my life.  I can tell you that Daryll Worley is the all-time worst based on one song - "Have you Forgotten".  It is/was the evil twin of the Alan Jackson song "Where were you when the world stopped turning" from the same time, which is very well-written.

 
I think Cassie has really emerged as a vital vocal foil.  Are you surprised by the role she's grown into within the band, or was there always a plan to phase her in and expand her role? 
 

I think you are correct.  I am happy to bring her in because it widens my surface area.  It's not done too much nowadays, so I like it.  I like to incorporate isolated things that other people find "corny".  This is from that tendency.  It's also an easy way to solve typical songwriting problems.

Songs like "Strange Victory, Strange Defeat" and "Candy Jail" suggest a sort of wayward shift for society.  Do you think it's a downward trajectory or a temporary lull?  Do you think the fat ones, bald and the goateed make a comeback, or has their ship sailed? 
 

It seems too much is beyond our control at this point.  We are just along for the ride.  There is no resistance.  Dissent has been drained.  We are going where the computers and the money are taking us.  And frankly, the lack of commentary in the public places, as we go along, is sort of amazing.

In that aforementioned interview from a few years back, we talked briefly about football and during that brief exchange you predicted bad things for Pacman Jones and Maurice Clarett, and hinted that Drew Bennett – who was hot shit at the time – was overrated.  All of those things have come to pass.  So as we head into another season for the Titans, what's in your crystal ball?  What's your fearless forecast?

I'm calling for a 4-0 preseason [Editor's Note:  Alas.]. Also, someone on the Titans special teams will lose a grandparent during the course of the regular season.  And LenDale White will be either more or less famous than Dick Van Dyke by December.